Critical Advice For Expectant Mothers
Birth Empowerment Mini-Course: Day 7
Interview with Kaitlin Rose of Bring Birth Home
Press play below to here this 30+ minute interview with the host of Bring Birth Home, one of the top Homebirth/Natural Birth communities online, in which you will find out:
- Why a medical doctor would choose to birth at home and to use hypnobirthing rather than an epidural to address discomfort during birth
- The lies we tell ourselves to feel better about the truth of drugs in labor and over-medicalized births
- The very real physical and mental changes I felt during pregnancy as a result of hypnosis for childbirth
- The difference between Lamaze and relaxation techniques, and hypnosis for birth
- Why guided imagery, affirmations and self-hypnosis was the key to getting rid of my fears about childbirth
- Much more...
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Press play to listen to this important interview
(or read the full transcript below)
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| Please share this interview with expectant mothers and fathers you know who are interested in birthing naturally and comfortably. |
Full Transcript: Kaitlin Rose interview with Madhavi Gupta, M.D., C. C.Ht.
Hello everyone and thank you for listening to our conversation today. My name is Kaitlin Rose with Bring Birth Home, and I have the honor of speaking with Madhavi Gupta this morning. She and her husband Jeremy Dyen help women and their partners visualize birth the way they want--a birth without fear, without discomfort and maybe even without pain in any setting.
For most of you this can be a reality but you might not know how. We’re gonna talk about how this morning. I’m so excited to be speaking with Madhavi. We’re going to be talking about the hypnobirthing Kit that she and her husband have created, and how they got started on their path to homebirth and hypnosis during childbirth. She’s going to give us the inside scoop.
And I’d also like to let you know, before we get started, that Madhavi is a physician. And usually it’s a little bit rare to hear of a physician giving birth at home.
But without further adue I would like to introduce Madhavi to you, and here she is on the call with us. So...
Kaitlin Rose: Good morning, Madhavi. Thank you so much for speaking with me today.
Madhavi Gupta: Hi. Good morning Kaitlin. I’m happy to be here.
KR: Great. I’m so happy to have you. It’s been a long time coming talking to you. I’ve known Jeremy for a while now, and he’s been writing great posts at Bring Birth Home, the blog, and I’ve known of you. But this is our first time actually speaking.
MG: Yes, it’s nice. I’ve gotten to talk with you a little bit through email, but this is actually the first time we get to speak.
KR: And it’s always interesting, knowing a little bit about people... I’ve heard about your birth story, and just the different posts that Jeremy has written, it’s given me some insight into your life. And now to be talking to you I feel like I already know you. So, it’s comfortable that way.
KR: So, we have some questions that you and I have both gone over. We’re gonna turn this into a big conversation. And, we’re just gonna start right out with homebirth, and like I said, it is usually a little bit rare for--or at least we think it is, who knows really--for a physician to be planning a homebirth...giving birth at home. So, what was it for you? Why did you want a home birth? What made you come to that decision?
MG: I came to homebirth at 34 weeks pregnant. So I was definitely later in the game, and it was a true journey for me. I started that journey thinking I was going to have a hospital birth with an epidural, and this was much encouraged by my best friend who is also a physician. And then as I started the journey through hypnosis, and with the affirmations of my power as a woman, and educating myself, that I began to feel confident in approaching a homebirth.
Eventually then the real question for us became, ‘Do we want to birth at home and run the very small risk of an emergency that might, but not necessarily be handled better in a hospital, or did we wish to give birth in a hospital with its additional stress and the likelihood of an intervention?’ And as we learned more it became clear for us that birthing at home with a certified, professional midwife was the best choice for us.
We were very much involved with watching the documentaries that had been put out regarding homebirth, and were very keen on learning about the cesarean rates which were quite high in the Philadelphia area, as they are pretty much throughout the United States, and that had a big part to play.
KR: So how would you describe your outlook during your pregnancy, or earlier in your pregnancy, about birth. What would you say that your level of fear was during that time?
MG: My level of fear was quite high. And I thought I could fix that by handing over my birth powers to the professionals at the hospitals, with their expertise and their drugs. I mean I realized that my baby has to come out somehow, and, you know all of us sometimes tell ourselves lies to believe what we want to believe. But over time I realized what the true consequences of these decisions were. And I realized that for my safety--mentally and physiologically, as well as my baby’s safety--that my true birthing powers were best exercised by me.
KR: So, how does hypnobirthing or hypnosis fit into this equation. Because you started out--you had a lot of fear, and then slowly you were introduced to the idea of homebirth, and very late in your pregnancy actually switched to making a decision to have a homebirth...What initially made you jump into hypnosis and hypnobirthing? Was there an “aha” moment somewhere in there?
MG: Yes. I was looking for birth course options online because it became pretty clear that taking a class at home was our best option, between my work schedule, feeling pregnancy fatigue and Jeremy’s work schedule. So when I was looking for one, I found one on hypnobirthing, and the reviews were quite positive so I decided to give it a try.
I bought two courses and I ended up using one of them because I really liked the positive mindset it created, while the other one, which is kind of “best-selling” as well, was really based a lot on inducing fear to prepare...So it just resonated with me, and as I went through that journey with the affirmations and the hypnosis and the visualizations it just became clearer and clearer that the places that we had laid out in front of us were changing. It became more clear as to what I really wanted.
KR: So did you feel any immediate changes in your psyche or your idea of birth when you began practicing this hypnosis during your pregnancy?
MG: I did. My daily levels of stress decreased a lot...As a result I didn’t miss any days of work and I was actually really happy to be there, which is like a dream--a dream for anybody who’s a working mother, or working person. I could fall asleep quickly. I felt comfortable as I imagined my birthing day. I didn’t have that anxiety as it was approaching. I could visualize the time of day, the place, who was with me, and my mood...And, as it came true it did end up happening the way I had envisioned. And I felt strong and happy, and I was empowered to make healthy choices.
And I really looked forward to meeting my child, and I pictured this place where loving and nurturing my daughter Anjali was the most important thing that was happening, and I felt greatly connected to her. And that is something that really happened through the hypnosis and visualization exercises.
KR: So it’s safe to say that the hypnosis created a positive environment for you during your pregnancy.
MG: Yes, definitely.
KR: I just have to say that that’s amazing, to me, to hear you say practicing hypnosis during your pregnancy made your overall pregnancy better, because in my mind, I really don’t know much at all about hypnosis for preparation for childbirth or hypnosis in general. And I just have this assumption, or just this previous--I don’t know--just opinion built up that it was only for childbirth and not for pregnancy.
MG: Yeah, it really helps because as you are going through the pregnancy, everything you are working on--the visualizations and the affirmations--they empower you, and that empowerment starts the very first time you start working with the materials. And that occurs when you are pregnant. So, right then and there you can start feeling the effects.
And it’s so calming. We we would often do it after dinner, sometimes before we went to sleep...And I say we because my husband, Jeremy, would do them with me. And they were so relaxing. And after we would go to sleep, and a lot of that pregnancy insomnia that I had to experience before just melted away.
KR: That is so good to know! I think that is so valuable, because there’s a lot of issues that women have during pregnancy like insomnia or stress or, you know, just the feeling--like especially when you’re pregnant for the first time, and you really don’t know what it’s like to be pregnant, and you have these aches and pains in your body, or you’re having trouble sleeping. And just knowing that that could help during pregnancy...That...I don’t know. It just really makes it a well-rounded, I think, covering a lot more than just childbirth.
MG: Right, right. And I think a lot of women, too, if they’re having a lot of fear about their date of delivery, they’re looking forward to meeting their child, but they know they have to go through something that they consider really awful in order to get there, and there’s no way through it, and they’re feeling powerless, and it’s just yucky. And the hypnosis and the affirmations really make that go away because you realize that you do have a lot of power, and things can go the way that you want them to go. And, you know, by--You know, someone can tell you that but you’re not really going to believe it. That belief takes time and work...And it just so calming and so affirming when you realize that things--that this isn’t bad...That you can birth pain-free, and keep your power...And it’s just nice.
KR: So, would you say that hypnosis is kind of like a form of meditation, because I think sometimes when you say you’re practicing hypnosis the idea might be that you’re going into some deep trance where you’re not in touch with the rest of the world...And you’re kind of blocked out...And, it’s not quite so severe as the hypnosis image that might be conjured up in someone’s mind. It’s more like, I would think, related to a very relaxing meditative state where you can calm your heart rate, and your breathing can slow down.
MG: It is. It’s like that physiologically. Meditation often--mentally, in meditation you try to think of nothing...You try to block all thoughts from occurring in order to get to the state of relaxation, whereas in hypnosis you are--you’re actually thinking about things...And if it’s guided imagery hypnosis it could be telling you specifically what to think but then you have to conjure up the images that it’s encouraging you to do. So it’s different in those techniques. But the effects of it are very similar.
KR: Thank you for clearing that up and making the distinction between the two.
MG: Sure.
KR: So you and Jeremy have created a hypnobirthing type of a product for people in the form of a Kit. And I’m curious, since you went through your own--you bought two different hypnobirthing packages or products...And so, what makes you and Jeremy’s Birth Relaxation Kit so unique and so special.
MG: Because I’m an M.D., I offer a perspective and experience that no other hypnobirthing program has. And we felt that we were--one of the few Kits in which we actually personally went through the experience of birthing with hypnosis. So we knew directly what worked and what didn’t work in the programs such as ours. And in addition, Jeremy has a--he’s a professional musician, and his musical approach and his experience with hypnosis gives the Birth Relaxation Kit an edge that is not found in other hypnosis kits. There’s a lot of deeply relaxing music that’s completely unique from any other program out there.
KR: That is really awesome! That is so awesome!
MG: Yeah! We’re very proud of it.
KR: Oh my gosh! So, in this Kit is it an all in one package, or are there classes, or are there sessions?
MG: We are not doing one on one hypnobirthing classes or sessions on this time. And the Birth Relaxation Kit is focused on the hypnosis and on health, so one thing that it doesn’t encompass at this time is the actual physiologics of birthing itself. (Note, we have added this since). But we felt that you could really get that anywhere. It was all of the other things surrounding that--that was quite important. And we felt that we would focus right now on refining the Birth Relaxation Kit and making expectant mothers aware of hypnosis as a real and effective option for birthing. So we decided to spend our time demystifying it and making it more accessible.
KR: Yeah, when you say demystifying that’s kind of what I was touching on earlier. When someone hears about hypnosis and they don’t know anything about it they might have this other meaning that isn’t necessarily accurate.
So, it’s definitely still not mainstream. What are the general reactions that you get, say from a friend, when you tell them that you did hypnobirthing during your pregnancy and then your childbirth?
MG: Well the first thing they say is how brave I was to birth at home, and I’m pretty sure every mother that’s birthed at home has heard this. Then they’re in disbelief when I tell them that the birth really wasn’t painful. It was intense, but not painful. And, you know, a lot of people--I’ve certainly gone on the web and, you know, there’re some famous celebrities that have birthed at home and have said that they felt no pain because they’d done hypnobirthing, but the comments to them were just scathing! They were like, “This woman’s lying!” You know, they’re just closed that there could be any other possibilities than the ones that they know. A lot of people then--of my friends at least which are curious to know how it works...Because many people think of hypnosis as a therapist dangling a pocket watch in front of your face until you become unconscious.
KR: (laughs) Exactly!
MG: Your mind is taken over by the hypnotist. They’re all myths. Hypnosis is a completely natural state, and we all go in and out of hypnotic trances daily. You’re in complete control of your mind and your body. And it’s really safe, easy and very relaxing.
So, there’s an example about hypnosis that I’d like to use. And it’s...You know if you’ve ever been washing your dishes, and you’ve been zoning out and thinking about other things, or you’re driving a car somewhere, maybe to get to work, and you’ve been thinking about other things...And then you think back and you wonder, “Oh, you know those last 10 or 15 minutes, I don’t really remember them.” You know, you got to your destination on time and safely. But, you know, if you think about driving for example, you’re doing a lot of complex things. You’re steering, you’re pressing pedals, you’re shifting gears, you’re watching for the other drivers. And if you think about all of those things it’s pretty fear inducing. But because you’ve practiced, and there’s a lot of repetition, you felt comfortable with the driving and the directions. You got there. And that state is hypnosis. And just so--as for birth, hypnosis for birth takes practice but anyone can do it.
KR: What I was going to say...What I was thinking is that I experience that every day. Every day!
MG: Yes. We do. We all do.
KR: I just know. I make this drive into town. It’s about a 30 minute drive because we just moved...We recently moved about 30 minutes out of town into this smaller town, and we drive in to get our groceries or do play dates. And I have been making this drive since I was 16, or even before that with my parents driving, because we have lived in this area almost my whole life. The route is so familiar that I do that all the time, where, you know, I’ll get--I’ll be 15 minutes from where I was and I’ll be like, “How did I get here? Oh my gosh! I don’t remember the last 10 minutes of this drive!”
MG: Right. Right! And, you know, when you get there you’re calm. You were calm throughout it. But you were doing something very complex and quite dangerous! But it’s not an issue because you just feel so comfortable with doing it because you’ve done it so often.
KR: So, giving that example and making so--making it make sense. I mean, it really makes sense when you use that example. Do you still run into people who are skeptical? And what would you say to those expectant mothers who are skeptical about birth hypnosis?
MG: Well, the most important thing to know is that it’s easy, safe and it’s natural. It’s as if you’ve been given a recipe and--to be able to do it, and then you practice that recipe--you know, if you’ve done it a hundred times you can pretty much consider yourself an expert, and that recipe’s easy for you.
You don’t have anything to lose, and you have so much to gain. At best you may birth pain free. A lot of women do. At worst, you’ll reduce your pain or eliminate it through most of your labor. You can reduce your labor time by several hours. This has been clinically proven. And you can relax easier and faster, have less stress, sleep better during pregnancy, as well as carry a lot of these stress relaxation techniques and empowerment way past pregnancy.
KR: Yeah, and you weren’t the only one who was practicing this hypnosis. You said that Jeremy was as well and...Have you seen any positive effects for him in his daily life (because, you know, he obviously wasn’t pregnant and having a child but he, I’m sure got some of the rewards that come with practicing)?
MG: Yes, he was--he also knew what to expect for our day of delivery, or birth rather. He certainly slept better. We both felt calmer. And I could see even after the birth, just the empowerment--for example, certain roles which he took for granted that--or obligations that he felt that he had, based on the expectations of other people...those were questioned and thrown to the wayside. And that was a really important step in this, especially in personal development.
KR: That’s wonderful. There are a slew of techniques out there, and birth hypnosis is one, Lamaze is one. A friend of mine does Rebozo, and I know that there are so many more. So, what would you say is the difference between the relaxation techniques that are taught through hypnosis and hypnobirthing as opposed to something, say like Lamaze?
MG: Well, hypnosis is a relaxation technique as a part of it. But it’s much, much more than that. It helps develop your positive mindset, and your determined outcome through visualization. And during hypnosis you’re guided into a deep state of relaxation, and that relaxed state makes you most receptive to suggestions. So, all sorts of suggestions in regards to eliminating fear, birthing comfortably, or anything really, can be introduced during that time when you are so receptive to suggestions.
And through the exercises, and as you’re working with hypnosis you visualize your outcome, and you affirm that you really do deserve a pain-free and comfortable birth. And so it’s kind of all-encompassing. It’s mind, breathing techniques, exercises. And, I wanted to also mention that in one study that compared Lamaze to hypnosis, for example, hypnosis resulted in shorter labor times, and better sleep, lesser anxiety and a better quality of birth over all.
KR: So, that’s a lot (laughs).
MG: Yeah, it is.
KR: I’m just thinking about it now--just hearing you say it--I would really love to have some of these techniques mastered just for my own daily life and being a parent and knowing how to be, you know, how to be in that more calm and relaxed state when you’re in those frustrating moments of parenting. (Laughs).
MG: (Laughs). So true! And we’ve even taught our two year old to kind of step back and just take some deep breaths. I think a lot of that may come from the hypnosis. She’s too young to do more than that, but we certainly remind ourselves because there are those moments when you want to do the right thing, but it’s not what comes immediately.
KR: Yeah. Um, we talked a little bit about Jeremy and his role, and the fact that he also participated. But do you think it’s necessary for birth partners to be involved or supportive in this work, or could it go either way?
MG: It’s not necessary. It certainly does help. In our case, Jeremy would read the scripts and he would give me cue words. We had certain cue words which we practiced beforehand, and were readily accessible during the birth. And they were kind of trigger words to remind me to relax my mind and body. I had a tendency to kind of bring my shoulders to my ears during certain parts of the birth, and there were key words to kind of remind me to bring them down, and that whole act of bringing them down just triggered some more relaxation--deeper relaxation, and that helped a lot.
Even if your birth partner isn’t doing these kinds of things, just being supportive helps. In the Birth Relaxation Kit, we give a lot of tips and helpful things that the birth partner can do. It helps create a positive mindset for your environment and the safe space that’s needed so that you do get to your desired outcome on the day of birth.
KR: So, speaking of a safe space, and you mention a positive mindset...you talked about these being key ingredients to a positive birth. What exactly do you mean by that? Could you elaborate?
MG: Sure. The hypnosis and the sessions that we created--they’re very much focused on positive mindset and creating a safe space because it’s so important in releasing your own powers and not handing them blindly to others. Go through these affirmations daily. They make a big difference in your mindset during pregnancy. Our surveys show that a high percentage of our customers found the birth affirmations to be one of their favorite parts of the Birth Relaxation Kit.
And these shifts can really be life changing. They worked for me, and they still do. Jeremy would agree that our birth journey was very much shaped--that it very much shaped our lives postpartum.
I also want to mention that a recent Australian study revealed fear as the strongest motive for women to undergo cesarean section where there was no clear cut medical reason for it. And what does that tell you about our mindset and how it affects birth outcomes? So, it’s, if you can, to try to eliminate the fear, and the hypnosis and visualizations and affirmations are certainly helpful in eliminating that fear and really just focusing on positive outcomes.
KR: And when you’re talking about a safe space, and a positive mindset, and a positive outcome in general...you know, you had a homebirth, but you’re definitely not excluding people who want to have an empowering, safe hospital birth. And that’s one thing that I’m really happy to hear, and commend you on, is that even though you felt like homebirth was the right choice for you, and I felt like homebirth was the right choice for me, I never ever like to hear the people who want to have an empowering, natural hospital birth being excluded. And you have never once done that in this entire conversation and we’re almost at the end of our interview. And when we’re talking about a safe space, as long as you’re creating that positive mindset and you’re envisioning this safe space in birth, and you’re able to relax and everything, you could do that in the hospital too.
MG: Yes. You definitely could if, through your journey, you feel that that’s your best space--that that’s where you’re the most comfortable, then that--those are your choices, and they’re empowered choices, and they’re ones that we encourage. Everybody’s journey is going to be a little bit different. You have to come to what’s right for you, but it’s important that you really realize what your true reasons are, and we certainly encourage that through the Birth Relaxation Kit.
KR: So, do you have any other advice or anything else that you would like to tell expectant mothers who might be considering home birthing before we wrap this up?
MG: My biggest advice would be, if you’re specifically considering hypnobirthing, or whatever techniques that you choose for birthing--it might be yoga, hypnosis, visualization, Lamaze--whatever you choose, that you practice daily, or at least regularly, because that makes all the difference. And we strengthen our visions and our bodies with daily practice. Our subconscious is really powerful and highly influenced by repetition. This is really especially true if you’re using mind-shifting techniques such as hypnosis because practice will bring the most success.
KR: I think that’s fabulous advice, and that can go with everything to--like you said, the way that you are practicing visualization and your overall health too--nutrition; you can’t just eat well for a little while and then expect that you’re still gonna maintain a healthy pregnancy. You really have to be consistent throughout the whole thing and with the positive affirmations too, having this positive mindset--it starts right at the very beginning so you can practice, practice, practice and really get it down ‘cause it takes a little while to form that habit.
MG: So true. You know, there are studies out there saying 14 days is what it takes to make something a habit as long as you do it daily. And, it’s true. All of that practicing really makes a difference, so that you’re very comfortable. And just as we were using the driving analogy, if you’ve driven to somewhere a hundred times and you can do it, you know, in quotations with your eyes closed, meaning you can think about other things and get there safely...It’s the kind of way that you want to approach birth, so that you have eliminated that fear...You don’t worry about getting in the car and going to where you need to go, and the more you practice, the easier approaching your birthing day will be.
KR: Well, it has been just fabulous talking with you. And, you know, not only do you really sound like an expert, you--just the whole attitude and the positivity that you have spoken with me, and spoken about surrounding this topic has been really inspiring to me, and you have given me quite an education in this short time that we’ve been talking. And I feel much more open myself to hypnobirthing...
And I was just thinking like, “Oh well, we’ve been saying that we’re done for now...Or at least for a while for a stretch”...And I’m thinking that, “Oh, how can I talk with you more about just including this into my daily life, even if I’m not going to go on to have more children.” But at the same time I’m thinking, “Ooh. If I have another one I will definitely be looking into hypnobirthing, and using the product that you and Jeremy have created because it just sounds wonderful and I would really love to see more and more women--and even myself included--have, not so much even just the fear-free part, but the pain-free part...Like, knowing that you could get into that relaxed state to work through the rushes of contractions..., it’s just invaluable.
MG: Thank you Kaitlin. That was awesome. Thank you.
KR: You have a fabulous day, and I hope to talk with you soon in the future...
For most of you this can be a reality but you might not know how. We’re gonna talk about how this morning. I’m so excited to be speaking with Madhavi. We’re going to be talking about the hypnobirthing Kit that she and her husband have created, and how they got started on their path to homebirth and hypnosis during childbirth. She’s going to give us the inside scoop.
And I’d also like to let you know, before we get started, that Madhavi is a physician. And usually it’s a little bit rare to hear of a physician giving birth at home.
But without further adue I would like to introduce Madhavi to you, and here she is on the call with us. So...
Kaitlin Rose: Good morning, Madhavi. Thank you so much for speaking with me today.
Madhavi Gupta: Hi. Good morning Kaitlin. I’m happy to be here.
KR: Great. I’m so happy to have you. It’s been a long time coming talking to you. I’ve known Jeremy for a while now, and he’s been writing great posts at Bring Birth Home, the blog, and I’ve known of you. But this is our first time actually speaking.
MG: Yes, it’s nice. I’ve gotten to talk with you a little bit through email, but this is actually the first time we get to speak.
KR: And it’s always interesting, knowing a little bit about people... I’ve heard about your birth story, and just the different posts that Jeremy has written, it’s given me some insight into your life. And now to be talking to you I feel like I already know you. So, it’s comfortable that way.
KR: So, we have some questions that you and I have both gone over. We’re gonna turn this into a big conversation. And, we’re just gonna start right out with homebirth, and like I said, it is usually a little bit rare for--or at least we think it is, who knows really--for a physician to be planning a homebirth...giving birth at home. So, what was it for you? Why did you want a home birth? What made you come to that decision?
MG: I came to homebirth at 34 weeks pregnant. So I was definitely later in the game, and it was a true journey for me. I started that journey thinking I was going to have a hospital birth with an epidural, and this was much encouraged by my best friend who is also a physician. And then as I started the journey through hypnosis, and with the affirmations of my power as a woman, and educating myself, that I began to feel confident in approaching a homebirth.
Eventually then the real question for us became, ‘Do we want to birth at home and run the very small risk of an emergency that might, but not necessarily be handled better in a hospital, or did we wish to give birth in a hospital with its additional stress and the likelihood of an intervention?’ And as we learned more it became clear for us that birthing at home with a certified, professional midwife was the best choice for us.
We were very much involved with watching the documentaries that had been put out regarding homebirth, and were very keen on learning about the cesarean rates which were quite high in the Philadelphia area, as they are pretty much throughout the United States, and that had a big part to play.
KR: So how would you describe your outlook during your pregnancy, or earlier in your pregnancy, about birth. What would you say that your level of fear was during that time?
MG: My level of fear was quite high. And I thought I could fix that by handing over my birth powers to the professionals at the hospitals, with their expertise and their drugs. I mean I realized that my baby has to come out somehow, and, you know all of us sometimes tell ourselves lies to believe what we want to believe. But over time I realized what the true consequences of these decisions were. And I realized that for my safety--mentally and physiologically, as well as my baby’s safety--that my true birthing powers were best exercised by me.
KR: So, how does hypnobirthing or hypnosis fit into this equation. Because you started out--you had a lot of fear, and then slowly you were introduced to the idea of homebirth, and very late in your pregnancy actually switched to making a decision to have a homebirth...What initially made you jump into hypnosis and hypnobirthing? Was there an “aha” moment somewhere in there?
MG: Yes. I was looking for birth course options online because it became pretty clear that taking a class at home was our best option, between my work schedule, feeling pregnancy fatigue and Jeremy’s work schedule. So when I was looking for one, I found one on hypnobirthing, and the reviews were quite positive so I decided to give it a try.
I bought two courses and I ended up using one of them because I really liked the positive mindset it created, while the other one, which is kind of “best-selling” as well, was really based a lot on inducing fear to prepare...So it just resonated with me, and as I went through that journey with the affirmations and the hypnosis and the visualizations it just became clearer and clearer that the places that we had laid out in front of us were changing. It became more clear as to what I really wanted.
KR: So did you feel any immediate changes in your psyche or your idea of birth when you began practicing this hypnosis during your pregnancy?
MG: I did. My daily levels of stress decreased a lot...As a result I didn’t miss any days of work and I was actually really happy to be there, which is like a dream--a dream for anybody who’s a working mother, or working person. I could fall asleep quickly. I felt comfortable as I imagined my birthing day. I didn’t have that anxiety as it was approaching. I could visualize the time of day, the place, who was with me, and my mood...And, as it came true it did end up happening the way I had envisioned. And I felt strong and happy, and I was empowered to make healthy choices.
And I really looked forward to meeting my child, and I pictured this place where loving and nurturing my daughter Anjali was the most important thing that was happening, and I felt greatly connected to her. And that is something that really happened through the hypnosis and visualization exercises.
KR: So it’s safe to say that the hypnosis created a positive environment for you during your pregnancy.
MG: Yes, definitely.
KR: I just have to say that that’s amazing, to me, to hear you say practicing hypnosis during your pregnancy made your overall pregnancy better, because in my mind, I really don’t know much at all about hypnosis for preparation for childbirth or hypnosis in general. And I just have this assumption, or just this previous--I don’t know--just opinion built up that it was only for childbirth and not for pregnancy.
MG: Yeah, it really helps because as you are going through the pregnancy, everything you are working on--the visualizations and the affirmations--they empower you, and that empowerment starts the very first time you start working with the materials. And that occurs when you are pregnant. So, right then and there you can start feeling the effects.
And it’s so calming. We we would often do it after dinner, sometimes before we went to sleep...And I say we because my husband, Jeremy, would do them with me. And they were so relaxing. And after we would go to sleep, and a lot of that pregnancy insomnia that I had to experience before just melted away.
KR: That is so good to know! I think that is so valuable, because there’s a lot of issues that women have during pregnancy like insomnia or stress or, you know, just the feeling--like especially when you’re pregnant for the first time, and you really don’t know what it’s like to be pregnant, and you have these aches and pains in your body, or you’re having trouble sleeping. And just knowing that that could help during pregnancy...That...I don’t know. It just really makes it a well-rounded, I think, covering a lot more than just childbirth.
MG: Right, right. And I think a lot of women, too, if they’re having a lot of fear about their date of delivery, they’re looking forward to meeting their child, but they know they have to go through something that they consider really awful in order to get there, and there’s no way through it, and they’re feeling powerless, and it’s just yucky. And the hypnosis and the affirmations really make that go away because you realize that you do have a lot of power, and things can go the way that you want them to go. And, you know, by--You know, someone can tell you that but you’re not really going to believe it. That belief takes time and work...And it just so calming and so affirming when you realize that things--that this isn’t bad...That you can birth pain-free, and keep your power...And it’s just nice.
KR: So, would you say that hypnosis is kind of like a form of meditation, because I think sometimes when you say you’re practicing hypnosis the idea might be that you’re going into some deep trance where you’re not in touch with the rest of the world...And you’re kind of blocked out...And, it’s not quite so severe as the hypnosis image that might be conjured up in someone’s mind. It’s more like, I would think, related to a very relaxing meditative state where you can calm your heart rate, and your breathing can slow down.
MG: It is. It’s like that physiologically. Meditation often--mentally, in meditation you try to think of nothing...You try to block all thoughts from occurring in order to get to the state of relaxation, whereas in hypnosis you are--you’re actually thinking about things...And if it’s guided imagery hypnosis it could be telling you specifically what to think but then you have to conjure up the images that it’s encouraging you to do. So it’s different in those techniques. But the effects of it are very similar.
KR: Thank you for clearing that up and making the distinction between the two.
MG: Sure.
KR: So you and Jeremy have created a hypnobirthing type of a product for people in the form of a Kit. And I’m curious, since you went through your own--you bought two different hypnobirthing packages or products...And so, what makes you and Jeremy’s Birth Relaxation Kit so unique and so special.
MG: Because I’m an M.D., I offer a perspective and experience that no other hypnobirthing program has. And we felt that we were--one of the few Kits in which we actually personally went through the experience of birthing with hypnosis. So we knew directly what worked and what didn’t work in the programs such as ours. And in addition, Jeremy has a--he’s a professional musician, and his musical approach and his experience with hypnosis gives the Birth Relaxation Kit an edge that is not found in other hypnosis kits. There’s a lot of deeply relaxing music that’s completely unique from any other program out there.
KR: That is really awesome! That is so awesome!
MG: Yeah! We’re very proud of it.
KR: Oh my gosh! So, in this Kit is it an all in one package, or are there classes, or are there sessions?
MG: We are not doing one on one hypnobirthing classes or sessions on this time. And the Birth Relaxation Kit is focused on the hypnosis and on health, so one thing that it doesn’t encompass at this time is the actual physiologics of birthing itself. (Note, we have added this since). But we felt that you could really get that anywhere. It was all of the other things surrounding that--that was quite important. And we felt that we would focus right now on refining the Birth Relaxation Kit and making expectant mothers aware of hypnosis as a real and effective option for birthing. So we decided to spend our time demystifying it and making it more accessible.
KR: Yeah, when you say demystifying that’s kind of what I was touching on earlier. When someone hears about hypnosis and they don’t know anything about it they might have this other meaning that isn’t necessarily accurate.
So, it’s definitely still not mainstream. What are the general reactions that you get, say from a friend, when you tell them that you did hypnobirthing during your pregnancy and then your childbirth?
MG: Well the first thing they say is how brave I was to birth at home, and I’m pretty sure every mother that’s birthed at home has heard this. Then they’re in disbelief when I tell them that the birth really wasn’t painful. It was intense, but not painful. And, you know, a lot of people--I’ve certainly gone on the web and, you know, there’re some famous celebrities that have birthed at home and have said that they felt no pain because they’d done hypnobirthing, but the comments to them were just scathing! They were like, “This woman’s lying!” You know, they’re just closed that there could be any other possibilities than the ones that they know. A lot of people then--of my friends at least which are curious to know how it works...Because many people think of hypnosis as a therapist dangling a pocket watch in front of your face until you become unconscious.
KR: (laughs) Exactly!
MG: Your mind is taken over by the hypnotist. They’re all myths. Hypnosis is a completely natural state, and we all go in and out of hypnotic trances daily. You’re in complete control of your mind and your body. And it’s really safe, easy and very relaxing.
So, there’s an example about hypnosis that I’d like to use. And it’s...You know if you’ve ever been washing your dishes, and you’ve been zoning out and thinking about other things, or you’re driving a car somewhere, maybe to get to work, and you’ve been thinking about other things...And then you think back and you wonder, “Oh, you know those last 10 or 15 minutes, I don’t really remember them.” You know, you got to your destination on time and safely. But, you know, if you think about driving for example, you’re doing a lot of complex things. You’re steering, you’re pressing pedals, you’re shifting gears, you’re watching for the other drivers. And if you think about all of those things it’s pretty fear inducing. But because you’ve practiced, and there’s a lot of repetition, you felt comfortable with the driving and the directions. You got there. And that state is hypnosis. And just so--as for birth, hypnosis for birth takes practice but anyone can do it.
KR: What I was going to say...What I was thinking is that I experience that every day. Every day!
MG: Yes. We do. We all do.
KR: I just know. I make this drive into town. It’s about a 30 minute drive because we just moved...We recently moved about 30 minutes out of town into this smaller town, and we drive in to get our groceries or do play dates. And I have been making this drive since I was 16, or even before that with my parents driving, because we have lived in this area almost my whole life. The route is so familiar that I do that all the time, where, you know, I’ll get--I’ll be 15 minutes from where I was and I’ll be like, “How did I get here? Oh my gosh! I don’t remember the last 10 minutes of this drive!”
MG: Right. Right! And, you know, when you get there you’re calm. You were calm throughout it. But you were doing something very complex and quite dangerous! But it’s not an issue because you just feel so comfortable with doing it because you’ve done it so often.
KR: So, giving that example and making so--making it make sense. I mean, it really makes sense when you use that example. Do you still run into people who are skeptical? And what would you say to those expectant mothers who are skeptical about birth hypnosis?
MG: Well, the most important thing to know is that it’s easy, safe and it’s natural. It’s as if you’ve been given a recipe and--to be able to do it, and then you practice that recipe--you know, if you’ve done it a hundred times you can pretty much consider yourself an expert, and that recipe’s easy for you.
You don’t have anything to lose, and you have so much to gain. At best you may birth pain free. A lot of women do. At worst, you’ll reduce your pain or eliminate it through most of your labor. You can reduce your labor time by several hours. This has been clinically proven. And you can relax easier and faster, have less stress, sleep better during pregnancy, as well as carry a lot of these stress relaxation techniques and empowerment way past pregnancy.
KR: Yeah, and you weren’t the only one who was practicing this hypnosis. You said that Jeremy was as well and...Have you seen any positive effects for him in his daily life (because, you know, he obviously wasn’t pregnant and having a child but he, I’m sure got some of the rewards that come with practicing)?
MG: Yes, he was--he also knew what to expect for our day of delivery, or birth rather. He certainly slept better. We both felt calmer. And I could see even after the birth, just the empowerment--for example, certain roles which he took for granted that--or obligations that he felt that he had, based on the expectations of other people...those were questioned and thrown to the wayside. And that was a really important step in this, especially in personal development.
KR: That’s wonderful. There are a slew of techniques out there, and birth hypnosis is one, Lamaze is one. A friend of mine does Rebozo, and I know that there are so many more. So, what would you say is the difference between the relaxation techniques that are taught through hypnosis and hypnobirthing as opposed to something, say like Lamaze?
MG: Well, hypnosis is a relaxation technique as a part of it. But it’s much, much more than that. It helps develop your positive mindset, and your determined outcome through visualization. And during hypnosis you’re guided into a deep state of relaxation, and that relaxed state makes you most receptive to suggestions. So, all sorts of suggestions in regards to eliminating fear, birthing comfortably, or anything really, can be introduced during that time when you are so receptive to suggestions.
And through the exercises, and as you’re working with hypnosis you visualize your outcome, and you affirm that you really do deserve a pain-free and comfortable birth. And so it’s kind of all-encompassing. It’s mind, breathing techniques, exercises. And, I wanted to also mention that in one study that compared Lamaze to hypnosis, for example, hypnosis resulted in shorter labor times, and better sleep, lesser anxiety and a better quality of birth over all.
KR: So, that’s a lot (laughs).
MG: Yeah, it is.
KR: I’m just thinking about it now--just hearing you say it--I would really love to have some of these techniques mastered just for my own daily life and being a parent and knowing how to be, you know, how to be in that more calm and relaxed state when you’re in those frustrating moments of parenting. (Laughs).
MG: (Laughs). So true! And we’ve even taught our two year old to kind of step back and just take some deep breaths. I think a lot of that may come from the hypnosis. She’s too young to do more than that, but we certainly remind ourselves because there are those moments when you want to do the right thing, but it’s not what comes immediately.
KR: Yeah. Um, we talked a little bit about Jeremy and his role, and the fact that he also participated. But do you think it’s necessary for birth partners to be involved or supportive in this work, or could it go either way?
MG: It’s not necessary. It certainly does help. In our case, Jeremy would read the scripts and he would give me cue words. We had certain cue words which we practiced beforehand, and were readily accessible during the birth. And they were kind of trigger words to remind me to relax my mind and body. I had a tendency to kind of bring my shoulders to my ears during certain parts of the birth, and there were key words to kind of remind me to bring them down, and that whole act of bringing them down just triggered some more relaxation--deeper relaxation, and that helped a lot.
Even if your birth partner isn’t doing these kinds of things, just being supportive helps. In the Birth Relaxation Kit, we give a lot of tips and helpful things that the birth partner can do. It helps create a positive mindset for your environment and the safe space that’s needed so that you do get to your desired outcome on the day of birth.
KR: So, speaking of a safe space, and you mention a positive mindset...you talked about these being key ingredients to a positive birth. What exactly do you mean by that? Could you elaborate?
MG: Sure. The hypnosis and the sessions that we created--they’re very much focused on positive mindset and creating a safe space because it’s so important in releasing your own powers and not handing them blindly to others. Go through these affirmations daily. They make a big difference in your mindset during pregnancy. Our surveys show that a high percentage of our customers found the birth affirmations to be one of their favorite parts of the Birth Relaxation Kit.
And these shifts can really be life changing. They worked for me, and they still do. Jeremy would agree that our birth journey was very much shaped--that it very much shaped our lives postpartum.
I also want to mention that a recent Australian study revealed fear as the strongest motive for women to undergo cesarean section where there was no clear cut medical reason for it. And what does that tell you about our mindset and how it affects birth outcomes? So, it’s, if you can, to try to eliminate the fear, and the hypnosis and visualizations and affirmations are certainly helpful in eliminating that fear and really just focusing on positive outcomes.
KR: And when you’re talking about a safe space, and a positive mindset, and a positive outcome in general...you know, you had a homebirth, but you’re definitely not excluding people who want to have an empowering, safe hospital birth. And that’s one thing that I’m really happy to hear, and commend you on, is that even though you felt like homebirth was the right choice for you, and I felt like homebirth was the right choice for me, I never ever like to hear the people who want to have an empowering, natural hospital birth being excluded. And you have never once done that in this entire conversation and we’re almost at the end of our interview. And when we’re talking about a safe space, as long as you’re creating that positive mindset and you’re envisioning this safe space in birth, and you’re able to relax and everything, you could do that in the hospital too.
MG: Yes. You definitely could if, through your journey, you feel that that’s your best space--that that’s where you’re the most comfortable, then that--those are your choices, and they’re empowered choices, and they’re ones that we encourage. Everybody’s journey is going to be a little bit different. You have to come to what’s right for you, but it’s important that you really realize what your true reasons are, and we certainly encourage that through the Birth Relaxation Kit.
KR: So, do you have any other advice or anything else that you would like to tell expectant mothers who might be considering home birthing before we wrap this up?
MG: My biggest advice would be, if you’re specifically considering hypnobirthing, or whatever techniques that you choose for birthing--it might be yoga, hypnosis, visualization, Lamaze--whatever you choose, that you practice daily, or at least regularly, because that makes all the difference. And we strengthen our visions and our bodies with daily practice. Our subconscious is really powerful and highly influenced by repetition. This is really especially true if you’re using mind-shifting techniques such as hypnosis because practice will bring the most success.
KR: I think that’s fabulous advice, and that can go with everything to--like you said, the way that you are practicing visualization and your overall health too--nutrition; you can’t just eat well for a little while and then expect that you’re still gonna maintain a healthy pregnancy. You really have to be consistent throughout the whole thing and with the positive affirmations too, having this positive mindset--it starts right at the very beginning so you can practice, practice, practice and really get it down ‘cause it takes a little while to form that habit.
MG: So true. You know, there are studies out there saying 14 days is what it takes to make something a habit as long as you do it daily. And, it’s true. All of that practicing really makes a difference, so that you’re very comfortable. And just as we were using the driving analogy, if you’ve driven to somewhere a hundred times and you can do it, you know, in quotations with your eyes closed, meaning you can think about other things and get there safely...It’s the kind of way that you want to approach birth, so that you have eliminated that fear...You don’t worry about getting in the car and going to where you need to go, and the more you practice, the easier approaching your birthing day will be.
KR: Well, it has been just fabulous talking with you. And, you know, not only do you really sound like an expert, you--just the whole attitude and the positivity that you have spoken with me, and spoken about surrounding this topic has been really inspiring to me, and you have given me quite an education in this short time that we’ve been talking. And I feel much more open myself to hypnobirthing...
And I was just thinking like, “Oh well, we’ve been saying that we’re done for now...Or at least for a while for a stretch”...And I’m thinking that, “Oh, how can I talk with you more about just including this into my daily life, even if I’m not going to go on to have more children.” But at the same time I’m thinking, “Ooh. If I have another one I will definitely be looking into hypnobirthing, and using the product that you and Jeremy have created because it just sounds wonderful and I would really love to see more and more women--and even myself included--have, not so much even just the fear-free part, but the pain-free part...Like, knowing that you could get into that relaxed state to work through the rushes of contractions..., it’s just invaluable.
MG: Thank you Kaitlin. That was awesome. Thank you.
KR: You have a fabulous day, and I hope to talk with you soon in the future...
